Daniel Ricciardo has been given a three-place grid drop for the Miami Grand Prix for overtaking a rival during a Safety Car period.
The stewards ruled the RB driver overtook Nico Hulkenberg on lap 28. Ricciardo mistakenly believed he was allowed to take the position back after Hulkenberg passed the RB when he was hit by Lance Stroll at the end of the previous Safety Car period.After speaking to both drivers, the stewards noted Ricciardo “admitted that he overtook car 27 [Hulkenberg] deliberately but he explained that he felt that he could do so because car 27 had overtaken him under Safety Car before on lap 28.”
The Safety Car was deployed a second time following the incident at turn 14. As he approached turn six Ricciardo told his team: “Let me pass Hulkenberg, yeah.”
His race engineer Pierre Hamelin replied: “Stand by, I’ll keep you posted.” But Ricciardo went past the Haas at turn six. “Ricciardo just overtook me,” Hulkenberg told his team. “Understood, we’ll report it,” replied his race engineer Gary Gannon.
The stewards ruled Hulkenberg had been allowed to pass Ricciardo when he was hit by Stroll “because of article 55.8.” This states, among other points, that a driver may overtake another during a Safety Car period if it “slows with an obvious problem”.
However “there was no justifiable basis for car three to overtake car 27 while the race was under Safety Car conditions,” they stated. “We accordingly imposed a 10-second time penalty on car three.”
Ricciardo subsequently retired from the race due to the damage caused by Stroll. “As car three was unable to serve the penalty due to retirement, we imposed a three grid-place penalty to car three for the next race in which the driver participates,” the stewards explained.
As sprint races are referred to as “sprint sessions” and not “races” in the regulations, Ricciardo’s penalty will apply to his starting position on the grid for the Miami Grand Prix, not the sprint race before it.
Ricciardo’s sanction is applied differently to that of Fernando Alonso, who also received a 10-second time penalty in yesterday’s sprint race before retiring, but was not given a grid drop instead. In their reasoning the stewards said the language governing how these penalties are imposed during sprint races “is somewhat unclear” and advised the FIA to amend the regulations.
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Jere (@jerejj)
21st April 2024, 13:42
His re-pass never got shown on the world feed, so I mistook Hulkenberg’s forced passing at the hairpin as the cause for investigation.
osnola
21st April 2024, 19:41
Same here… but if the stewards took less time to give this penalty Riici would have been able to server the penalty on track.
Now this option is taken away as a result of the slow steward reaction. Almost as slow as the race director during the Bottas incident.. Very bad!
Yaru (@yaru)
22nd April 2024, 1:17
They wanted to hear from the drivers themselves which would give Danny the ability to defend himself in case he had a good excuse. He had none, as he not only didn’t know the correct rules but didn’t even wait until he got confirmation from his engineer.
If you want to take unilateral action you better be sure you’re correct and he wasn’t in this case.
Nulla Pax (@nullapax)
21st April 2024, 13:46
Danny – everyone has got the knives out for you mate – just retire and go open a kangaroo farm or something.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
21st April 2024, 14:06
Kangaroos are culled here.
Nulla Pax (@nullapax)
21st April 2024, 15:24
I could make a tasteless comment along the lines of …
“Well at least he would be creating entertainment for some people”
… but I wont … ;)
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
22nd April 2024, 1:04
Well said. The matters of sustainability, conservation, land management that ensure the survival of other native species and maintenance of biodiversity, preservation of the food bow, minimising the factors contributing to climate change are not a matters of entertainment. It’s dashed hard work. Quite a balancing act.
Now back to my reading of the Balfour Document and the Sykes-Picot Agreement and what follows..
Nick T.
21st April 2024, 15:59
This had nothing to do with Daniel who performed well. This has to do with zero flexibility / sensibility on these SC overtaking rules. We saw multiple ones.
Yaru (@yaru)
22nd April 2024, 1:12
Nothing wrong with the rules. As for flexibility, the SC rules are flexible as it allows overtaking if the car Infront has a problem, which Danny was as he was just being git. Hulk didn’t have a problem when Danny overtook him, so overtaking is not allosed. That is just the basics of the rules.
Also Danny overtook before
getting confirmation from his team. That is him being an impatient idiot.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
21st April 2024, 13:54
File this under: RBAlonso moans about stewards.
But come on. DR was ahead, he was rear ended in something that a penalty was issued for and then he retook the position to return him to his rightful place.
There is such a lack of basic common sense. Why is ruining next weekend the solution here? Are drivers to see something obviously wrong, then ask the steward to investigate, then issue a penalty when the drivers can just swap round.
Another example of babying the drivers. Let’s treat adults like adults and not micromanage everything that is not written in black and white in the rulebook. Such a spineless, backward step.
BasCB (@bascb)
21st April 2024, 14:01
I agree that giving him a 3 place grid drop for this is a mess, especially since he had to retire due to accident damage from being rear ended.
But he shouldn’t have taken it in his own hands to take that place back – teams normally clear this kind of thing with race control first to avoid confusion.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
21st April 2024, 15:33
I agree it’s a bad precedent to set, although I’ve not seen the onboard. It’s obviously acceptable for Hulk to overtake to avoid the crash, and acceptable to give the position up without the stewards consent. But doing it the other way breaks the rule? It’s letter of the law versus common sense. The rule exists to stop 2 wide overtaking, racing or gaining an unfair advantage. Here DR is restoring parity.
The stewards should reprimand him, remind the drivers of the course of action and perhaps add a provision to the existing rules. But they can’t dismiss Astons case which was based on letter of the law and then apply a penalty here arguing they have no flexibility.
Yaru (@yaru)
22nd April 2024, 1:28
You can overtake a car in SC when they have an obvious problem. Being hit by a car from behind while being bunched up counts especially as you obviously lose speed when that happens.
When Danny wanted to overtake Hulk, Hulk had no obvious problem.
This seems common sense to me. Car ahead have a problem = okay you can pass. Car not having a problem = you can’t pass. It’s not complicated.
If Danny wants to get mad at someone, get mad at Stroll for causing the accident.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd April 2024, 7:14
Yeah, it wouldn’t make any sense to ask from Hulkenberg in that instance to immediately slam the brakes and come to a full stop to avoid “overtaking” the incident, that would only cause MORE mayhem since others behind Hulk would see their path through the corner blocked even more.
Yaru (@yaru)
22nd April 2024, 1:19
His team DID try to clear things first but Danny was impatient and overtook before his team got back to him. That’s on him.
This was mentioned in the article.
Laz
21st April 2024, 14:42
They’re not allowed to just retake their position. If someone is pitched into a spin by another car, everyone who passed doesn’t wave them back by. This collision obviously wasn’t Ricciardo’s fault, but he had still lost the position because Hulkenberg was within his rights to pass. The alternative for Hulk would have been to come to a complete stop on the hairpin apex, which would have potentially caused another collision. It sucks for Ricciardo that he lost a position because of Stroll’s ineptitude, but he had no right to take it back.
The penalty was deserved – you do not overtake under safety car unless told you are allowed to, or if the driver in front has a mechanical problem, goes off track, or is involved in an incident.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
21st April 2024, 15:27
Can you point me to that exact rule? 55.8.h states you can overtake if a driver has an obvious problem. I’m not sure where it’s written that you get to avoid cars that continue and keep the position. Hulk should have immediately waved them through or receive a drive through.
I agree that he shouldn’t openly break a rule but if the team had asked the stewards they would have allowed it. If Hulk had let him past, they would have allowed it. So we’re really debating if it’s the letter of the law versus the pragmatic reality. Yesterday when Aston took a case to them about the letter of the law they dismissed it as though they had some flexibility. Today they don’t. This is such a moot point that it could be covered by a reprimand and a fine. I really don’t think this should impact another race weekend.
Sumedh
21st April 2024, 16:56
Problem is Hulk couldn’t let him back past as Max had bolted off and the race was technically green.
And Ricciardo overtook him in the 2nd safety car period, not the one in which he was overtaken. Hence, the stewards view point is that the infarction of 1st safety car is not to be taken into consideration (which is fair)
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
21st April 2024, 19:19
Hulk could have let him by at any stage on the lap or under the SC.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd April 2024, 7:16
That’s not true @RBAlsonso. That would only work if both teams agree and inform their drivers as well as race control up front of wanting to make the change, you cannot just “do it”
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
22nd April 2024, 15:21
Anyone can let anyone past at any time.
The repass is the contentious element and I agree DR is out of line for doing that. But to punish him in a fairly unclear situation is strange to me.
Laz
21st April 2024, 17:17
So let me get this straight. You don’t think one car ploughing into the back of another car, sending them up in the air, and punting him well wide isn’t an obvious problem?
Yes you are allowed to pass cars that that have a collision. Feel free to watch Hulk’s onboard, by the time Ricciardo is back under control Hulk is already ahead, he even slows and hesitates. The only other thing he could have done was stop entirely on the apex, and that would have been unsafe, potentially creating another collision. The fact he would have had to stop to let them maintain their positions is what jusitifes him passing both.
If a driver is spun and loses positions everyone does not let them back by. It may suck for that driver that they lost positions through no fault of their own, but lost them they have. Ricciardo lost a position because of Stroll there was a collision, and by the time they were done recovering Hulk was already ahead. Hulk was justified to take the place, Ricciardo being the victim does not justify him taking it back.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
21st April 2024, 19:19
I think the words “obvious problem” make the rule excessively vague.
Where do the rules say that you are allowed to pass cars having contact and/or can you cite an example of a previous incident?
Hulk doesn’t have to not pass them, but he should give the positions up. He’s not genuinely earned them. He’s overtaken under the SC as much as Ricciardo has.
I don’t think this is the same as a driver spinning. Ricciardo is on the same line doing the same speed as the 5 cars in front of him. He’s not stationary and he’s not off the track. Hulkenberg has no right to pass Ricciardo there for me. He has the right to avoid an accident but then he must give it back.
In any event, I don’t think the stewards should waive Hulkenberg and then punish Daniel – he’s the entirely innocent party of the first SC.
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
22nd April 2024, 9:16
@rbalonso
Vague yes, as is the case with many of F1’s rules and hence the deliberation required. Excessively so, not at all. In fact I’d argue it less vague than many of the rules debated here.
Car slows having been harpooned up the rear by another car. Let me think. Is there a problem there or not? Y’know I think if that happened to me I’d consider it a problem!
What has spinning got to do with it? Being hit by another car is vague as it is not the same as spinning?
But he did slow and was heading off line. And what if you spun, but did not leave the track nor became stationary but still slowed and were passed?
Fair enough, that’s your view, but does this make the rule vague, or simply make the point that you disagree with it?
I get that it seems harsh. I 100% agree with you there. But just because it’s harsh does not mean doing the opposite is instantly the better option. For example, if he were not allowed to pass how much, and for how long should the following car be held up before something is done about it?
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
22nd April 2024, 15:19
I think obvious problem can be applied to this case but my concern is that it’s far too broad. Smoke from the engine and front wing endplate loose would fall into that category – would I permit a car to overtake because of them? – no.
It’s not whether the contact is deemed a problem it’s the limits of it. If a driver is over the white line, fair enough. If they become stationary, fair enough. Neither of these things happened so Hulk has turned right to avoid an accident and benefited 2 places. I don’t see that as fair. Hulk may see the problem but he can’t see if DR went out, therefore he continues feeling entitled to that position. This is understandable but I think this is where the stewards come in.
Spinning makes the example clear – like Bottas 2017 China where he was off the track stationary. Of course he shouldn’t be allowed to repass everyone. But Ricciardo is on the circuit – he can go as slowly as he likes on whichever line he likes behind the SC.
Regarding the last paragraph, I don’t know how long as the I feel the rule is vague. But we’re penalising one driver for overtaking without permission and ignoring the other one. And my point remains, I think DR could have had a case that the Hulk move was illegal and a very open rule allows it and costs DR a penalty when he corrects it.
Riker (@corsair)
21st April 2024, 14:36
Seriously?
F1 rules are a shambles.
Yaru (@yaru)
22nd April 2024, 1:29
Nothing wrong with the rules. Don’t overtake in SC unless the car ahead has a problem. It’s not a complicated rule.
Danny overtook when Hulk had no problem
notagrumpyfan
22nd April 2024, 7:53
Race direction is partly to blame though: they should’ve told Ricciardo and Sargeant to give the place back.
One simple short messages and they save the stewards and commenters a lot of time.
Sumedh
21st April 2024, 14:57
Harsh. But justified. Ricciardo overtook Hulk during the 2nd safety car after being overtaken during the 1st safety car. Had he re-overtaken during the 1st safety car itself, he probably would have been OK.
Pete
21st April 2024, 15:33
100% a penalty. It’s irrelevant whether he deserved the position back or not – you can’t overtake under a safety car. There could be people on track etc so everything has to be cleared with the stewards first. DR asked, was told to stand by and then did it anyway so that’s on him.
MichaelN
21st April 2024, 17:22
The safety car rules are strict and strictly enforced for a good reason.
It’s unfortunate for Ricciardo, but he should know better after 10+ years.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
21st April 2024, 18:33
Not ricciardo’s fault and the rule needs to be changed, but as long as it’s not I don’t see any other way, as like someone pointed out, hulkenberg would’ve had to stop to not overtake.
DonSmee (@david-beau)
21st April 2024, 18:55
Soon (Danny) child, things will get easier.
– Some song about hardships.
Honda
21st April 2024, 20:12
Honestly his race was ruined by his poor start and horrible pitstop strategy. Foolish of him to take matter on his own hands. Team should have told him to give back that position. I guess they thought it was race over for him anyways due to damage so penalty would not matter. Very likely that they were also not aware that the penalty would carry over to next race if he does not take it in this race.
Tristan
21st April 2024, 21:48
“slows with an obvious problem”
What obvious problem did DR’s car have that allowed Hulkenberg passed in the first place? There was none.
Crazy that Dan is the one penalised here just for taking his correct place back.
Returning to your correct position in safety car line is not overtaking.
Just crazy.
SteveP
21st April 2024, 22:19
Apart from the problem where Lance Stroll stuck the nose of his car under the rear of Ricciardo’s car and bits came off both?
Apart from that, nothing really.
Tristan
22nd April 2024, 3:28
Hulkenberg is just lucky there wasn’t a car in front of him or he would have got the same penalty as Stroll. He was clearly going too fast to be able to keep his position.
Cars slowing down isn’t “an obvious problem” otherwise it makes a whole mockery of the safety car process.
He managed to get free positions under safety car, for no real reason, and then get the other guy penalised when taking them back. Go figure.
MacLeod (@macleod)
22nd April 2024, 7:47
Nico was the one behind Stroll but instead of ramming Stroll he steered right evading the accident because the turn was 120Degree he passed both drivers. He for a moment waited if the drivers took their places but Nico couldn’t stop for that (unsafe) so he sloted behind the row.
Too bad for Daniel but this was Stroll doing not paying attention even blaming Daniel for braketesting (Stroll should get at least 6 points for that)
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
22nd April 2024, 9:23
Cars slowing down when the rear is launched into the air by another car driving into it “is” (in at least the stewards views).
It’s a little disingenuous to imply it was merely about the slowing down and not the circumstances of the slowing down. I am reasonably confident that most, if not all scenarios that you yourself would call an obvious problem would have a ‘slowing down’ component.
Mark (@blueruck)
22nd April 2024, 0:01
Sucks for RIC, but come on man, wait for the team to respond. He did this to himself.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
22nd April 2024, 1:44
not really, he took a gamble, and this whole thing wouldn’t be an issue if he had kept on in the race and had to give the place back in a timely manner.
The stewarding is just not fast, efficient or correct enough right now and it looks terrible on the FIA.
bull mello (@bullmello)
22nd April 2024, 1:35
This is a bad ruling by stewards on this incident when Daniel when punted by another driver that caused this.
It is not clear to the driver or the team if the driver should the position back to the other who went ahead of the punted driver. Not clear at all.
To me, this is a bad ruling.
MacLeod (@macleod)
22nd April 2024, 7:54
I have to disagree here the rules were correct applied. If he waited maybe RC would grant him the pass but he didn’t waited for that and took action in his own hands and overtook during SC and he believed he was entitled to do that before the lap was over.
Maybe it was a rule in the past (not that i know) but current rules are very clear on this during SC you not allowed to pass ecpets there was a incident with your opponent in front of you.